July 5th, 2000  

Question: In enlightenment, what happens to the dream? Would it be the instant end of the universe?

Jivanjili: There is no universe in reality. When this would be seen by all, at the same time? This is Narayana, the maintainer of the illusion. Narayana takes care that it cannot happen, just for the sake of the dream, for the sake of the play in consciousness and out of great compassion. It is because of this dream that we have something like awakening: no dream, no wake up! What we do while chanting the Gayatri Mantra, is in fact maintaining the universe. Our work is the work of the bodhisattvas: maintaining the universe…. to be able to speak here…. to be able to guide people from the delusion, the whole error.

    There is nothing wrong with the dream, it can be so beautiful! Even in winter. Even when it is all going so smooth. But what happens when you forget that it is a dream? Identification! Then you get suffering, misery, then you become serious, attached. Then there is one and the other, then there is worry, then there is self-consciousness, depression, and you can see how you become entangles.…. what a misery!

So the work of Sacha is a wake-up call. And to be able to make a wake-up call, we need a dream!           

    ShantiMayi once told us that a little sadhu left his body and came to meet Narayana. And Narayana said: "OK, now you have lived this dream and what has made the deepest impression on you?" He replied: "the ignorance of the people”!

Narayana answered:  "OK, you can pass, absolute dissolve in the essence of what all is, or I can give you a seed to plant in the people's hearts to help them wake up out of that dream. It is the Gayatri Mantra." And the sadhu said: "Yes, give me that seed, give me the Gayatri Mantra. I will go back".

This sadhu was ShantiMayi. So our work is the Gayatri Mantra and all the aspects of the notion of enlightenment in the highest concepts. Wonderful.           

    Once you see it, you have really seen it, and there is no shadow of a doubt, you cannot mistake the dream for reality... where to go? Suddenly, there is no urge to leave the body and get rid of the whole thing and stopping the wheel of karma and all these concepts we have. There is nowhere to go and you see it thoroughly and total. So why not come back as a bodhisattva with the commitment to plant this seed in people's hearts... isn't that delicious? ….And being free of it. And the radiance, the resonance, you cannot own, not claim, nothing. Mystery. And yet so present and so untouched. Wow.

Question: I have a question about the concept of enlightenment. The word ‘enlightenment’ supposes going from an ‘un-enlightened state’ to an ‘enlightened state’. Is there such a thing as an ‘en-lightenment’ or is there rather something like unveiling one obstruction after another, to come to finally see the free nature, or the natural state of being?

Jivanjili: And still then you can go a step further. Why is that? ‘Natural state of being’: can you state such a thing? Or could we say in the last analysis, ‘a state of being’? Is there a ‘state’, is there ‘being’?

Student: I see the mistake: ‘natural’ implies ‘unnatural’...

Jivanjili: Which you always are... how can you not be natural? I think even when you are acting according to your conditions; it's natural for having these conditions, and acting according to them. Because when you say ‘natural’, you can also say ‘unnatural’ - and ‘unnatural’ is so harsh and unloving. And for Jivanjili, it has always been very deep to be able to chant ‘Om Purnamadah Purnamidam’... (This is perfect, that is perfect) It gave me a clue of ‘all is perfect as it is’. So it starts to work its alchemy on unconditional love towards oneself. Because when you walk around with the idea "I'm not natural, I'm unnatural, I have to fix that, from one state to another", it is so rude, it is so making yourself wrong... Anyway you could say so, but is it helpful to state it in that way? Or is it just judgmental? What can people do with it? Condemn themselves? Feeling guilty? Want to change? It makes one more split in you, in your ego-sense. The Essence cannot be split whatsoever in the notion of separation.     

        And yes, ‘enlightenment’... as long as you use a word, we talk also about its opposite. As long as we say ‘day’, there must be a ‘night’. So as long as we say ‘enlightenment’, with the notion of a ‘state of enlightenment’, we're also talking about ‘endarkenment’. And in reality there is no such a thing: how could it be? 

    Yet I have seen that it is very good news to be able to tell to people that there is something like an ‘en-lie-tenment’: the Masters, the Teachers, they have to lie a little bit, to lighten you up!

it is like a vanishing concept.

    We put a seed in one's heart that something is not real, boundaries, sufferings, split, duality, ambition, failure, doubt, looks and all these kinds of things, are only realities when given reality to if looked at life from the outside, on the surface. I am convinced of the fact that even people, when they are beautiful and healthy and have a nice boat and a second house and everything is going fine and well, and they have good friends on their birthday party and all the good food, that there is something aching inside. One day or another…. otherwise there would be all Hollywood stars being stuck in their romantic scenario and all that….all those people are going to see a psychiatrist once a week. What for?  

    So when one comes to the ripeness, to the maturity to really understand beyond comprehension that there is a so-called ‘state of enlightenment’, or ‘a way out by going in’, a shift can take place. We use the term ‘going in’ in meditation. There is nothing like ‘going in and going out’, but it’s very useful. I call it ‘sacred lies’. It is very dangerous to skip and drop that too soon. Because when you use these concepts like: "wow, there is a way out by going in” you start slowly to see that the road is made of stones of ash-concepts. We walk on this so-called path, the pathless path, detaching from every footstep instantly because there is no fixed abode. The path is made of this ash-stone. And as soon as you detach from any concept, as soon as you feel 'this is glue, it is getting heavy' - you feel it in yourself, you can feel it in your breathing, something is loosened, and it is getting more and more transparent. Of course, in the vast essence which is revealed by Grace, by vigilance, patience and sincerity, who would be there to call it ‘enlightenment’, who would be there to say "enlightenment"? Who would be there? So there is even no being. There is no state, there is no being. There is no ‘I am’.... and yet there is.

Student: Like two sides of the same coin?

Jivanjili: Yes, like a flickering lamp, the spinning mirror. Yes. So still there appears to be an existence, coming and going. But when you're completely unattached, you see it for what it is and not for what you think it is. You will not want to change it, but you see it for what it is: ropes of ash, dream substance. You play freely in it. it is a tremendous creative dream, isn't it? Everything appears in it, everything is possible in that dream. You have no right to be happy. You have no right to be healthy. You have no right to be wealthy. So you are not concerned by these aims and striving. This is why I can hear the Saints saying: "enlightenment doesn't bring you anything". it is still going on, but it is a profound difference, when you can see all really as One and you see the dream substance, isn't it? Then you know there is no ‘enlightenment’, because... why? As soon as you can say something, you've got something you know in words. This is why unconditional love and encouragement and being in the Presence of the Masters, reading Sutras, there is something you cannot grasp, you simply do not understand. Have you had this experience?

All: Yes.

Jivanjili: You know, it is nectar.

You cannot stop breathing, isn't it? You are helpless in breathing.

    Because beyond the words something is appealing. Still you want to understand it. This is why silence is the answer. Beyond the highest is the Unknown. You could also say all knowledge is ignorance, to think you know and that you can figure it out is ignorance. That's why we cannot explain to our family, our neighbors or our boss what we are doing, why we are doing it! I don't know, I never knew. I only knew that I could not not do it! And rest in that.

   I think it is a good exercise to get used not to have an explanation or an excuse or an answer when someone asks you anything. This is a little bit like protecting or taking care of the ‘golden embryo’, not running into the street with a newborn baby. This has a lot to do with respect for oneself and being aware of the subtle body.  Go a bit more in nature or be a little bit alone and chant mantras, instead of going to a café and having these discussions, phone calls, judgments, questions, defenses - all this stuff is going with it - arguments, convincing... Because love takes over. You've got nothing to say. How can you say it? How can you tell the smell of a rose? So it is not logic, it is not illogic. We all know what we are talking about in some way or another. There is no logic in it and it is not illogic, because we all understand it by heart, isn't it? You understand it by heart. Then there is something being care-freed. Care-free of what people think or whether they understand or agree upon it. You simply don't care. Not because you love less, but because you know that you can't explain. You understand that the people cannot understand. They cannot smell the smell of a rose and leave the experience free of explanation. You cannot make them do so.

    Unconditional love is so beautiful. Really seeing how ripe the fruit is and not blaming the other for not recognizing the smell of that rose…. Just become more aware of with whom you are, to whom you talk and which words you use, not pushing anything upon anybody. it is so good for you.

But having respect starts with respect for yourself, respect for this unspeakable subtle attraction, this inner ‘knowing’.

And for all who hear the word ‘enlightenment’, I think it is a big big blessing.

    In the last analysis the word ‘enlightenment’ dissolves with all the other words, like ‘Guru’ as ‘your’ Guru. You can use ‘The Principle’, ‘The Absolute’, ‘The Unknown’, ‘The Unspeakable’, ‘Devoid of ignorance’ in all that appears to be.

Is this answering your question?

Student: Yes, thank you.   

Jivanjili: This is why I'm so touched when you come, all of you. I got to know you for various reasons. You all came with some situation or problem; I'm attracting people who have never heard about Sutras, Gurus, Enlightenment, all this kind of stuff... Well, maybe you had heard of meditation, because this word has been more and more known over the years... When I see you come, with these serious problems and the states you think you are in, I cannot fix that that state, because then you will have the next one! So it is very subtle to introduce: "yes, there is a way out, forever and ever".

    Then you see that the Gayatri Mantra is so profound, fertile, because the Gayatri Mantra by itself appeals already to something you cannot speak about. It appeals to the subtle intellect like the fragrance of a rose, instead of analysis or psychology. When you came Akasha, you were a student in the university, I knew - because you were so sincere on your quest "Who am I" and "what is it all about". Of course, when you don't know of the possibility to ‘wake up’ you go to the university. You think I am going to study psychology, then I will get the answers!" – you have been a little bit misled!

    So when you get the answers in this special way, by simply getting to know the Gayatri mantra: "Om Bhur Bhuvah Svaha..." By repeating and repeating it, it reveals something in the heart that has been so thirsty and yearning for this Essence of what you are in reality. Then there is a point where, when you're smart enough, you cannot just continue in this field of psychology. Even when your heart is called to work with people, so to speak, you cannot go in psychology sessions, like in institutions...

   I got a letter from a lady today who says: "You are working with people with eating disorders. Can you tell me how you do it? I have studied psycho-synthesis, I have studied this, I have studied that”! She is more learned than I will be in a thousand life times!!! What to say, because I have not done anything with anyone ever! I only knew what didn’t feel sincere; I didn't know the outcome and the results. I couldn't say. So I knew this: I don't want this, that, this not, not that, not this, not that. How did I know? Just by intuition.

When you say "not this, not that", you are simply throwing those bricks of ash out of the way.

    We are so used to have been asked: "what do you want? Now you have to know what you want to become. You have to be sure of knowing what you want to become!" it is like being forced to choose which prison you prefer! “None, please!”

    I have never played with the concept of enlightenment evaluating it from a bare intellectual level. Maybe because I just knew that then the transmission so to speak – because in reality there is no transmission - through unconditional love would have been blocked.

Enlightenment is a very useful concept; I would not throw it out too soon!

    Just being in satsang is enough. I know, really I know, I have always known, that the people all come to me by heart, without knowing why they came. Because something deeper was calling...

    When it is necessary to lie, we lie. When it is necessary that our boyfriend is taken away, the boyfriend is taken away. This is compassion, also.

    “Everything is for your awakening, nothing is against you”. This is true for EVERY situation. Every situation! You can always see the wisdom in every situation, be sincere and courageous. See where you are scared and say "not this, not that".

    I always say it is so funny, because if I walk up to you and I grab your throat and I just squeeze it, I can go to jail, because it is an attempt to murder someone! You will kick me! But when you squeeze your throat so that you can hardly breathe, then you think it is normal! You are doing this for life times!!! Funny, huh? There is no law against it. And yet, there is a law against it! Because everyone will have a turning point and start to get the notion of "well, I feel there is a possibility to get more air, this is not my full capacity. How come, how come?"

I say: "LET GO!!!"

But you say: "how come?" and grab your throat.

LET GO!!!

But you say: "my husband would be so disappointed, he loves me like this! What will people say? I don't want to be different!"

    So you have to go alone. That is why it is for the courageous ones. There is no choice. At a certain point, there is a certain ripeness and then you go, you have no choice. I told you yesterday, I said: "Now you go to the bar, you drink a lot of beer, try to be sexy, try to organize an one-night stand and smoke gauloises noires!!!" You will find that you cannot do it anymore the way you were used to! You can play the game and act it, but you cannot do it any more with the same seriousness and having the drama as real, taking it for reality, having the story with it!

    When everyone would wake up at the same time, in this awakening the telephone company would be the first one to go bankrupt!

What more to say?